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  • MulMan
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2 years 4 months ago #58251

In other Rugby news it appears that Ireland have gone from favourites to rank outsiders following the independent appraisal of the bids. It came to the conclusion that South Africa had the best bid. Now I could have accepted France as the best bid, but in no way can I see how South Africa ,a country that barely was able to get government support to even put forward their bid, has the best bid. I'm really disappointed at this decision and hope that even if it isn't us that gets the RWC that it doesn't go to them.

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2 years 4 months ago #58252

Paris has the Olympics in 2024, and there was concern that this would overshadow the RWC, much as is happening in Japan. Personally I hope SA get it, that way we might have a chance with 2027. That said we'd need more than 5 fit for purpose stadiums (Croker, Lansdowne, Ravenhill, Thomond & Pairc Ui Chaoimh), a full transport link from Cork up to Derry, and to have nuked Buttevant, so I won't be holding my breadth.

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2 years 4 months ago #58255

One of the widely touted advantages of the Irish bid was that we had never hosted it before (at least not alone or as the principal host) whereas the others had, but if you look at the assessment criteria, that wasn't taken into consideration. I suppose you could consider it an element of Vision and Hosting Concept, but that's still a small proportion of the overall score. (Maybe it's all explained on one of the 138 pages I didn't read.)
Based on those criteria, you'd imagine that if England had bid again, they probably would have got it. In fact if they find a good host, no reason the same union can't keep winning it every time.

VISION AND HOSTING CONCEPT 10%
TOURNAMENT, ORGANISATION AND SCHEDULE 5%
VENUES AND HOST CITIES 30%
TOURNAMENT INFRASTRUCTURE 20%
FINANCE, COMMERCIAL AND COMMITMENTS 35%

That said I never quite understood how we were such raging favourites for so long.
Dick Spring has been known to pull off the odd surprise on polling day though so it mightn't be over yet ;-)


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2 years 4 months ago #58259

From my reading through of the document it seems like it would be very hard for any nation who hasn't hosted before or doesn't have massive stadia already sitting there to ever win the right host a RWC again. They also seem to have forgotten some of the aspects that made England 2015 a successful tournament, namely that not all the games were held in a few extremely large stadiums, and that the tournament was spread across the country to give a greater atmposphere in the host nation. Also South Africa would have very few of those stadiums at the required level if it wasn't for them hosting the FIFA World Cup in 2010 where there lack of existing grounds didn't seem to hinder their bid, and likewise for France with the 2016 Euros, which saw massive development work even though they had the Stadia from RWC2007 there. The aspects I would have thought we were obviously strongest in e.g. government support, security, legacy and vision and ease of transport for teams were areas where we saw little or no gains at all, and the areas where we were always going to be lacking like Venues and hosting experience counted massively against us. But here's to hoping that the next time a bid is being put forward that a redeveloped Sportsgrounds may be a part of it.

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2 years 4 months ago #58266

A big issue seems to be that they wanted primarily all-seater venues. If this was a known requirement, you'd have to wonder why the IRFU bothered.
Pearse and FitzGerald Stadiums were always going to be a hard sell in that context.


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"We haven’t liked the wind and rain for about four years now" - John Muldoon 1/1/2015

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2 years 4 months ago #58287

Article on the WR website says the host will be decided by a simple majority vote.
www.worldrugby.org/news/291551

"Independent auditors will oversee the process and the vote on 15 November, which will comprise a total of 39 votes, with a simple majority required to select the Rugby World Cup 2023 host."

However there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what constitutes a simple majority.
I always thought it just meant the largest number of votes, as in a UK election, and that's what Oxford gives: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/simple_majority
But Collins has it as more than half of the total: www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/simple-majority with various other sources falling into either camp.

Couldn't spot a detailed explanation of the actual RWC voting process anywhere.
You'd imagine in a first past the post scenario, South Africa would be a shoo-in, but if there was a second round of voting in the event no-one gets to 20, one of the NH bids might sneak in.


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"We haven’t liked the wind and rain for about four years now" - John Muldoon 1/1/2015
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by pinky.
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2 years 4 months ago #58288

I'd imagine this is first past the post. Otherwise the intent of the evaluation process (to eliminate backroom horse-trading) is completely nullified by a second round.

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2 years 4 months ago #58289

According to Gerry Thornley it's first to 20 votes, if after a first round of votes no country has 20 votes the last team is eliminated and the countries vote again until a country reaches 20 votes

Tier 1 nations get 3 votes (England, Wales, Scotland, Italy, NZ, Argentina & Australia, countries bidding don't get to vote)
Regional associations get 2 votes (Europe, Africa, Oceania, N America, S America, Asia & Japan)
Smaller rugby nations get 1 vote (USA, Canada, Georgia & Romania)

Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by greyingbeard.
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2 years 4 months ago #58290

greyingbeard wrote: According to Gerry Thornley it's first to 20 votes, if after a first round of votes no country has 20 votes the last team is eliminated and the countries vote again until a country reaches 20 votes

Tier 1 nations get 3 votes (England, Wales, Scotland, Italy, NZ, Argentina & Australia, countries bidding don't get to vote)
Regional associations get 2 votes (Europe, Africa, Oceania, N America, S America, Asia & Japan)
Smaller rugby nations get 1 vote (USA, Canada, Georgia & Romania)


Actually yeah, this article supports that view too (it's a bit out of date as Japan and Argentina were given an extra vote since then).
www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SouthAfrica2023/...oting-works-20170717

It's a bit of an anomaly that the eliminated country doesn't get to choose between the remaining candidates.


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"We haven’t liked the wind and rain for about four years now" - John Muldoon 1/1/2015

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2 years 4 months ago #58291

pinky wrote:
It's a bit of an anomaly that the eliminated country doesn't get to choose between the remaining candidates.


It kind of makes sense. If Ireland or France were eliminated they'd screw the other to give themselves a chance of getting 2027 (unlikely there would be 2 European RWCs in a row); if SA were eliminated they'd vote for France as they'd be the greater threat in a 2027 bid. So none of them would actually be voting on the RWC 2023.

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2 years 4 months ago #58292

pinky wrote: A big issue seems to be that they wanted primarily all-seater venues. If this was a known requirement, you'd have to wonder why the IRFU bothered.
Pearse and FitzGerald Stadiums were always going to be a hard sell in that context.


Should be possible to fit temporary seating in any of the GAA stadiums, but lack of covered seating in same may have been a concern especially with the unpredictability of an Irish late Summer / autumn.
Most of the GAA stadiums have one covered stand (Killarney, Castlebar, Derry etc), and quite a few like Pearse Stadium don't even extend the full length of one side ...

I've been to games at both Biarritz and Bayonne in September and got absolutely drowned, even in 25°c it's not fun and tickets would have been much less than half of what I suspect a RWC 2023 ticket will cost...

Despite all the ramaish been put into print by professional naysayers, there are lots of positives from the legacy of Ireland winning the right to host...

Still not a foregone conclusion that Saffers will get the nod.
There will be other countries thinking that if they vote for them that they may be voting to exclude themselves from a future opportunity ..


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2 years 4 months ago #58311

www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup...o-none-36285797.html

If Shane Ross truly believes this he hasn't been in too may if Ireland's stadiums. Most are substandard with poor ancillary facilities, and little to no supporting transportation infrastructure.

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2 years 4 months ago #58312

bear in mind he is the same Muppet that wants to bring Tractors in for a NCT.

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2 years 4 months ago #58479

France it is!


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"We haven’t liked the wind and rain for about four years now" - John Muldoon 1/1/2015
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2 years 4 months ago #58485

The bid committee are having a go at Scotland and Wales for not voting for us, but the way I add it up, one of them did.
England + US + Canada = 5. We got 8. So my guess would have been the other 3 were Wales.
The other alternatives don't make much sense (North America + Georgia?)


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2 years 4 months ago #58486

pinky wrote: The bid committee are having a go at Scotland and Wales for not voting for us, but the way I add it up, one of them did.
England + US + Canada = 5. We got 8. So my guess would have been the other 3 were Wales.
The other alternatives don't make much sense (North America + Georgia?)


Being reported that Wales told Ireland they would abide by the report & that Scotland always intended to follow the money, so not them. If US and Canade voted for us then NA probably did too. Unlikely Georgia did.

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