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2 years 7 months ago #55708

connemara man wrote: In a 2 tier scenario how does European qualification work?


It's not a two tier scenario there are two parallel groups/pools/conferences. Assuming there will be a barrage system like in France, then top 3 in each group would qualify for playoffs and (SA teams excepted) Europe, with the two 4th place teams playing off for the 7th spot (if necessary, you'd hope that one of the SA teams would finish in the top 4 of their conference and render a playoff unnecessary, we don't need two more Zebres).

Of course that assumes there is a European competition to qualify for. Clermont asides the French teams were disinterested at best, and some of the English teams didn't seem to give a stuff either.

Last edit: 2 years 7 months ago by salmson.

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2 years 7 months ago #55709

Sorry I meant 2 conference/ group league. But still all it'll take is one decent going from a South African team and they end up 3rd to screw the whole system.

Also no way the IRFU split the provinces into 2 separate conferences. imagine a season that Connacht only had 1 home games bs another province which could happen if they were split into separate conferences. That would be a significant loss to the Bank balance for us. If it happened to Munster, Ulster or Leinster it'd be a bigger loss putting more burden on the IRFU finances

There will always be a European competition, the teams In France and England that want to win it are the ones that don't struggle for survival from relegation. That's why the tier 2 has always been a joke.

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2 years 7 months ago #55710

There's no problem in splitting the Irish teams across two conferences. If you have 2 7 team conferences and you want to keep 22 regular season games, you play everyone in your conference home and away (12 games), 4 teams in the other conference once, and the remaining 3 teams in the other conference twice. So there's no problem in keeping all the Irish and Welsh derbies going. Rumours are that there may be a tweak where instead of playing each other twice, the Italians, Scots, and South Africans wlll play each other 3 times, to increase the number of derbies & reduce traveling.

As for European competition, the revamp (and particularly the removal of a title sponsor) has been a financial disaster. Total sponsorship is now less than what Heineken was paying before the new format came into being, crowds are down, and the next TV deal isn't looking good due to Sky's upcoming revamp (they may not even bid).

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2 years 7 months ago #55711

ConnachtCows wrote: Definitely feel that I'm in the minority here, but I'm kind of excited about the Saffas joining the league


I think I could work, I really hope it does, it all depends on how they structure it. Hopefully it makes the league more competitive, and lets be honest they could not offer any less than the Italians currently do.
Also, if an Italian team goes to the wall, we will need to replace them, where else do we get a pro rugby team from?

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2 years 7 months ago #55712

The interpros would be retained as I explained above (the format is based on a bit of guesswork but there will definitely be 6 interpros). And there would be no loss of revenue - the whole idea is to boost revenue. The main concern would be whether it takes off in SA, or they pull out after a while after a few teams up here have gone bust and we're left in a worse place than we started, etc.

There's a few different ways to slice and dice the euro qualification. Ignore the SA teams and then have the top 3 euro teams from each group plus a playoff. Or they mightn't bother with a playoff and just give it to the team with more league points. Also possible that they could do that for the barrages as well (top 2 in each pool plus the next best two, who could come from the same pool).


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2 years 7 months ago #55713

So play everyone in your own conference twice so 12 games then play the other conference once again 19 games then play in Irish terms the same country teams once more again 21 games. How does the league work there? How do the 2 conference tables feel balanced in that scenario? The Irish provinces come out of that scenario with a far harder path to a potential final.

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2 years 7 months ago #55714

salmson wrote: As for European competition, the revamp (and particularly the removal of a title sponsor) has been a financial disaster. Total sponsorship is now less than what Heineken was paying before the new format came into being, crowds are down, and the next TV deal isn't looking good due to Sky's upcoming revamp (they may not even bid).

Also bear in mind the French TV money is coming from Qatar (and I hear they're going great these days ...)


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2 years 7 months ago #55716

Just thought of another thing.
If the SA teams are playing each other 3 times, they could schedule those games for times when the Pro12 is normally on a break (e.g Six Nations/Euro QF weekend). That would allow them to have no games during the Christmas/NY period and given that they won't be playing in the Champions Cup, they would be off from (based on last year's schedule) December 3rd til February 10th. With a couple of other tweaks it would mean they could retain their current season rather than swtiching to the NH season schedule (they'd be splitting the Pro12 across two seasons). With some re-organisation at the other end, they could remain in the Currie Cup. Also it solves the problem of heat, etc.


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2 years 7 months ago #55718

Im not sure why some people thinks the SA teams woulden't be eligible for the Champions Cup. They may not want to, but if we can have a team from Siberia in the Challange, why not! Plus I thought it was all about meritocracy, do we really want two teams that just can concentrate on the league with lots of breaks, every year.

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2 years 7 months ago #55719

You mean the European champions cup? I think that's why. But you're right we don't know the details of any agreement that has been made

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2 years 7 months ago #55720

connemara man wrote: You mean the European champions cup? I think that's why. But you're right we don't know the details of any agreement that has been made


Sure whats in a name :)

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2 years 7 months ago #55721

I don’t want to be knocking the idea of expansion and to be fair I’m excited to see South African teams in the league (not sure what to call it not Pro12/14???) and I would like to see the competition get better and better. However, I think we need to take stock of what’s happening in Super Rugby right now. They expanded, it didn’t work and now they need to contract. But, nobody is suggesting that they get rid of two of the teams that they expanded for, the Sun Wolves and Jaguars. If something similar happened to the Pro12, ourselves and the Dragons could easily find ourselves on the chopping block. Particularly as the SA teams seem to be bring a substantial amount of money with them and since we’re from the countries with the most teams already. As is the situation currently with the Melbourne Rebels, there wouldn’t be any safety net of another league for us to join.

Last edit: 2 years 7 months ago by EnricoPalazzo.
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2 years 7 months ago #55722

EnricoPalazzo wrote: I don’t want to be knocking the idea of expansion and to be fair I’m excited to see South African teams in the league (not sure what to call it not Pro12/14???) and I would like to see the competition get better and better. However, I think we need to take stock of what’s happening in Super Rugby right now. They expanded, it didn’t work and now they need to contract. But, nobody is suggesting that they get rid of two of the teams that they expanded for, the Sun Wolves and Jaguars. If something similar happened to the Pro12, ourselves and the Dragons could easily find ourselves on the chopping block. Particularly as the SA teams seem to be bring a substantial amount of money with them and since we’re from the countries with the most teams already. As is the situation currently with the Melbourne Rebels, there wouldn’t be any safety net of another league for us to join.


Very good observation.

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2 years 7 months ago #55723

EnricoPalazzo wrote: Im not sure why some people thinks the SA teams woulden't be eligible for the Champions Cup.


Because the draw is already made!


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2 years 7 months ago #55724

columoc wrote:

EnricoPalazzo wrote: I don’t want to be knocking the idea of expansion and to be fair I’m excited to see South African teams in the league (not sure what to call it not Pro12/14???) and I would like to see the competition get better and better. However, I think we need to take stock of what’s happening in Super Rugby right now. They expanded, it didn’t work and now they need to contract. But, nobody is suggesting that they get rid of two of the teams that they expanded for, the Sun Wolves and Jaguars. If something similar happened to the Pro12, ourselves and the Dragons could easily find ourselves on the chopping block. Particularly as the SA teams seem to be bring a substantial amount of money with them and since we’re from the countries with the most teams already. As is the situation currently with the Melbourne Rebels, there wouldn’t be any safety net of another league for us to join.


Very good observation.


Certainly there would be no guarantees but I could just as easily see the Italians dropping one or both teams or the entire league collapsing.

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2 years 7 months ago #55725

Australians pushing the idea of a Trans Pacific Super Rugby with no Saffer teams...who would then play in Europe.

www.greenandgoldrugby.com/tuesdays-rugby-news-186/

Its mad Ted!

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